Amelia’s Weekly Fish Fry – Episode 672

Release Date: March 6, 2026

Host: Amelia Dalton
Guest: Rolf Segger, SEGGER

Introduction

Amelia Dalton:
Hello there everyone! Welcome to episode number 672 of this electronic engineering podcast called Amelia’s Weekly Fish Fry, brought to you by EEJournal.com and written, produced, and hosted by me, Amelia Dalton.

Embedded systems take center stage in this week’s podcast. My guest is Rolf Segger from SEGGER. Rolf and I dive deep into their extensive embedded solutions portfolio. This includes a closer look at their RTOS, debuggers, IoT offerings, and their distinctive approach to licensing and support.

We also explore the fascinating concept of emApps, which represents an intriguing vision for embedded system design and is poised to shape the future of smart device development.

So without further ado, please welcome Rolf to Fish Fry.

Segment 1: Introducing SEGGER

Amelia Dalton:
Hi Rolf, thank you so much for joining me.

Rolf Segger:
Well, thank you for having me.

Amelia Dalton:
Absolutely! So Rolf, first talk to me about SEGGER.

Rolf Segger:
I started SEGGER about 35 years ago. We began with just a real-time operating system, and then expanded with more middleware—things like emWin, file systems, and more.

Today we have four different types of products:

• Middleware

• Development tools (like Embedded Studio and SystemView)

• J-Link debug probes

• Flashers

The J-Link and Flashers are what we’re probably most known for.

Segment 2: Security Challenges in Embedded Systems

Amelia Dalton:
What do you think are the most significant security challenges facing embedded systems designers today?

Rolf Segger:
Security is becoming more and more important as embedded systems turn into IoT devices.

In the past, devices like washing machines or coffee makers were isolated. Even if they were hacked, it wouldn’t really matter much.

But now, if you hack a connected device—even something like a light bulb—it could be used as part of a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack.

So securing embedded systems is more important than ever.

At SEGGER we provide various components for that. For example:

• emCrypt – a complete suite of security software

• Secure bootloader (emBoot Secure) – a new product that complies with modern standards, including new regulations from the European Union

In general, all our tools are designed to integrate securely into embedded systems.

Segment 3: SEGGER’s Middleware Ecosystem

Amelia Dalton:
You offer a wide range of middleware including file systems, RTOS, and GUIs. What advantages does this integrated approach bring?

Rolf Segger:
We provide a complete suite, which we license as a full operating system called emPower OS.

When people outside the industry ask what we do, I usually say:

“It’s like Windows for embedded devices—only modular and much smaller.”

The core components include:

• embOS – the kernel

• embOS Ultra – a newer cycle-accurate version

• emFile – file system

• emWin – graphics

• emCrypt – security

• emUSB – USB communication

• emNet – TCP/IP networking

• emSecure – security services

The big advantage is that everything is designed to work together. All components follow the same coding standards and integrate easily.

However, customers don’t have to use everything. Many use FreeRTOS, for example, and still use our file system.

Key Design Focus

Our software is optimized for embedded systems:

• Fast and efficient

• Small code footprint

• Very low RAM usage

In embedded systems:

Flash is cheap. RAM is expensive.

Flash can often be expanded, but RAM usually cannot, so minimizing RAM usage is critical.

Additional Benefits

Another advantage is portability.

If you rely on software provided by a specific silicon vendor, you may become locked into their chips.

If you switch to another vendor, you might need to rewrite everything.

With our software, switching chips or vendors is much easier.

Segment 4: Real Example – SEGGER Flasher

Rolf Segger:
Let me give you an example: the SEGGER Flasher, which is an in-system programmer.

One of our newest versions is the Flasher Compact.

Inside it we use many of our own components:

• emFile for storage

• emWeb for web server access

• embOS Ultra for cycle-accurate timing

You can even connect to it via a web browser, including over USB, which is interesting because normally web servers are accessed over Ethernet.

The web interface allows:

• configuration

• monitoring

• device management

No software installation needed.

Segment 5: Supporting Increasingly Complex MCUs

Amelia Dalton:
With the rise of IoT and increasingly complex microcontrollers, how is SEGGER supporting these trends?

Rolf Segger:
Honestly? By hiring more people.

Years ago, chips were simple:

• one core

• some flash

• some RAM

Now we see:

• multiple cores

• different memory types

• TrustZone security

• complex boot flows

It’s becoming much harder to support all these devices.

But we also make our platform open through things like our Device Support Kit (DSK) so customers or silicon vendors can add support themselves.

We’re also exploring using AI for certain tasks—for example generating flash loaders from chip documentation.

Segment 6: SEGGER’s Licensing Philosophy

Amelia Dalton:
Let’s talk about licensing and support. What’s your philosophy?

Rolf Segger:
Our core motto is:

“It simply works.”

Look at smartphones—they’re extremely complex, yet anyone can use them.

That’s the experience we want for our products.

Another key principle is fairness.

We try to be fair to:

• our employees

• our customers

• the broader ecosystem

And we avoid putting customers in a situation where they depend completely on us.

Segment 7: emApps for Embedded Systems

Amelia Dalton:
Let’s talk about emApps. How does this approach work?

Rolf Segger:
This is one of my favorite topics.

Many of our products came from needs we discovered internally while building our own tools.

Embedded devices keep getting more complex, and every chip is slightly different.

For example:

• every device may have a different flash programming algorithm

We didn’t want to constantly modify the firmware of tools like J-Link or Flasher whenever new chips appear.

So we created emApps, which run on a virtual processor.

Why This Matters

If all intelligence sits on the PC side, communication links like USB introduce latency.

USB is great for large data transfers, but not for thousands of small transactions.

Example:

• USB latency ~250 microseconds

• That limits how many small register operations you can perform.

Some operations require extremely precise timing, such as unlocking chips during reset windows.

These tasks must run inside the probe itself.

What emApps Do

emApps allow small programs to run inside the probe.

These apps:

• run on a virtual processor

• operate in a sandboxed environment

• cannot crash the system

Each app gets its own memory space.

If it tries to access memory outside its allocation, the system stops execution—similar to how smartphone apps work.

Benefits

This allows customers to:

• customize device behavior

• create custom programming logic

• build their own web interfaces

• extend device capabilities

For example, a customer could localize a web interface into Vietnamese without us modifying the firmware.

Example Use Case

Imagine a solar-powered water maker.

You could write a small program that:

• checks battery level

• checks time of day

• checks tank level

Then decides whether to run the system.

This flexibility makes embedded devices much more intelligent and customizable.

Off-the-Cuff Question

Amelia Dalton:
If you could have one meal right now—anywhere in the world—what would it be?

Rolf Segger:
That’s a dangerous question.

I live happily in the Bahamas, so honestly I’d probably just go to my favorite Italian restaurant here.

Amelia Dalton:
Nice! Awesome.

Closing

Amelia Dalton:
Well Rolf, this was super cool. Thank you so much for joining me.

Rolf Segger:
Thank you so much for having me.

Podcast Outro

Amelia Dalton:
Well folks, that’s all I’ve got for this week’s Fish Fry.

If you’d like more information about SEGGER, I’ve included plenty of links on this week’s Fish Fry page on EEJournal.com and in the YouTube description.

You can also follow EEJournal on social media:

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• YouTube – youtube.com/eejournal

Our YouTube channel is packed with technical videos, including our popular Chalk Talk webcast series hosted by me.

Thanks for tuning in!

If you know about cool new technology—or just want to chat—email me at amelia@eejournal.com.

I’m Amelia Dalton, and you’ve been fried.